XIV Forum Polish - German
Warsaw
23-24th June 2010
DEBATE SUMMARIES
Westerwelle: German-Polish friendship symbolizes fulfilment of the internal unity of Europe
Ministers of Foreign Affairs of Germany and Poland, Guido Westerwelle and Radosław Sikorski, were the guests of the second day of the debates of the XIV Polish-German Forum.
The head of the German Ministry of Foreign Affairs stated in his speech that „German-Polish friendship symbolizes fulfilment of the internal unity of Europe. It symbolizes the ability of overcoming historical antagonisms and moving jointly ahead”. Westerwelle reminded that during the VI Forum, Krzysztof Skubiszewski presented a thesis about „Polish-German community of values and interests”. – Now partnership for Europe emerged from the community of interests – said the German minister, emphasizing development of Polish-German relations in the recent two decades.
According to Westerwelle a political breakthrough in 1989 was a model for Germany and “gave wings” to other liberation movements all over Central Europe. – Germans do not want to forget about it – he reassured.
Westerwelle noticed that a place for meetings of Germany, France and Poland is the Weimar Triangle, where new initiatives for Europe are developed. – Weimar Triangle is a guarantee of bonds between the East and the West of Europe. It can play a key role in consolidating relations between the EU and its eastern partners – he judged. As he remarked, "we have already made the first steps". "To our meeting in April in Bonn we invited Ukrainian Minister of Foreign Affairs, and yesterday in Paris we talked with our colleague from Russia Sergey Lavrov" – said the head of German Foreign Ministry.
Westerwelle reminded that on his first visit as the minister he went to Poland, and not to Paris like his predecessors. He emphasized that it was not a sing of a turn in our relations, but a symbolic manifestation of the importance of friendship between Germany and Poland. The head of the German foreign ministry assured also that Poland can count on support of Germany during its presidency in the European Union. – We are partners on the path of recovery from the economic crisis in Europe – he stated.
Westerwelle judged that in the common history of our countries, Germany had been too frequently a reason for suffering of Poles. - Both today and in the future Germany will no longer be a reason for such suffering. In the time of mourning, Germany stands by the side of its Polish neighbours - said Westerwelle corresponding to the plane crash in Smolensk.
Sikorski: Our countries have engaged in unprecedented political dialogue
Sikorski: Our countries have engaged in unprecedented political dialogue
In similar categories as Westerwelle, the Polish-German relations were described by Radoslaw Sikorski. “Our countries have engaged in unprecedented political, economic and social dialogue, touching also on the painful past. The way, in which Poles and Germans went through difficult historical processes, is a model for reconciliation between other nations”– stated Sikorski.
The Polish minister remarked though that not everything succeeded in Polish-German cooperation. – We have not departed from certain stereotypes, we still complain about lack of interest in our country. In many points we are different and we will be different undoubtedly – said Sikorski. The head of Polish Foreign Ministry announced that Eastern policy and cooperation with Russia will be one of the strategic aims of the Polish presidency in the European Union. – We want the EU to continue dialogue with Russia, but in the spirit of solidarity and considering sensibility of various states forming the EU. Sikorski added that the Russian propositions related to the new security architecture in Europe are worth attention and in-depth discussion.
Sikorski said that the 20th anniversary of the signature of Polish-German treaty on good neighbourhood, which falls next year, will be an opportunity to renew Polish-German partnership. – We want to lead to formulation of a new Polish-German agenda on the 20th anniversary of signature of the Polish-German treaty on good neighbourhood, which would include issues, whose progress is unsatisfactory – said Sikorski.
Opening of the Forum
Inauguration of the XIV Polish-German Forum was marked by the reminder of the role of Polish-German meetings in the neighbourhood relations and the entry of the these relations into the European Union level.
- It's a great pleasure for me, as a senior of Polish-German relations, to open this year's Forum. The tradition of our Forum is so long-standing that it operates even in difficult and complicated times - said Professor Wladyslaw Bartoszewski, Prime Minister's Plenipotentiary for International Dialogue, reminding about presidential election in Poland and Germany, which absorbs many persons involved in dialogue between both countries.
Profesor Bartoszewski noticed that the Polish-German Forum is a platform for sharing experience and opinions on different levels from local self-government to central government. As it was emphasized by former Minister of Foreign Affairs of Poland, this role is anchored in the Treaty between Poland and the Federal Republic of Germany on good neighbourhood and mutual cooperation of 17 June 1991. The Prime Minister's Plenipotentiary for International Dialogue emphasized that Poles were grateful to receive real, active German help after the catastrophe, which was the recent flood for Poland. - It was the expression of human, good neighbourhood reaction on the part of Germany - added Professor Bartoszewski. Referring to the future, professor Bartoszewski reminded the date of 1 July 2011, when Poland will take over presidency in the EU. - I don't conceal that we rely heavily on the experience of France and Germany in this role. In his view, the platform for sharing experience should be the Weimar Triangle.
Cornelia Pieper Minister of State, Co-chair of Polish-German Forum, said that thanks to its motto, this year's Forum goes beyond the borders of bilateral perspective. Our relations are in perfect shape, which is surprising for some people. This is intended to be a close exchange of views, which does not mean that we want to interfere in internal affairs. Prof. Irena Lipowicz emphasized that we don't have to reassure that we appreciate so great progress, which we managed to achieve in Polish-German relations. In her opinion, only a few years ago the motto „Polish-German partnership for Europe" would be a challenge, and today it has become a reality, because we are partners in the European Union in so hard period for Europe.
Economic dimension: local and global challenges
Ernst Burghbacher, Secretary of State from the Federal Ministry of Economy and Technology expressed a view that the French-German tandem cannot be replaced in Europe, but one can ask how to complement it and here is the role for Poland in the European Union. - We agree that the crisis in the Eurozone has not occurred as a result of actions of speculators, but as a consequence of indebtedness of state budgets. The criteria envisaged by the EU regulations were not observed even by the reachest countries EU countries. Here, we must make the first step and care about balanced budgets, but equally important is the economic growth we need - stated Burghbacher.
Adam Jasser, Undersecretary of State, Secretary of the Economic Council by the Prime Minister's Chancellery, referring to the issue of the accession of Poland to the Eurozone stated that from the point of view of Poland the situation in the Eurozone has strategic importance, because strong euro, means strong Europe. - Accession to the Eurozone is envisaged by the accession treaty of Poland, but if the Eurozone is meant to be an answer to globalization challenges (emerging Far East markets) and civilizational ones, it has to have robust financial foundations. That is why Poland shares the approach of Germany to the consolidation of public finances. Jasser paid attention to the specific features of the Polish situation in the context of German fiscal policy. „Economic growth" has a different meaning for affluent countries and a different one for transition countries. - How can we find compromise between fiscalism and modernization? - asked Jasser.
- A great challenge for us is to combine fiscal reliability and further modernization, which is followed by Poland all the time - judged Jasser emphasizing that in a situation when Poland does not fulfil the criteria of the Eurozone, considering possible external shocks and unstable markets, it makes no sense to speak about a date of introducing euro. - We don't want to get in the Euro zone through the back door, but the main entrance - recapitulated Jasser.
In the opinion of Sebastian Plociennik from the Institute of International Studies at Wroclaw University, „we deal with the end of the concept of Eastern Europe in Europe, crisis of Euro is a sign of a new division in Europe. In his speech, he presented scenarios for a long-term project of Euro zone. The first one is the scenario of a sharp convergence, which assumes that a southern type economy, with a strong state's involvement and rigid labour market disappears from the European economy.
The second presented scenario assumes emergence of a transfer type of the European Union, where Germany builds a strong economy, which exports its products to southern countries, and next transfers its funds there. Referring to the success of Poland during the global economic crisis, doctor Plociennik emphasized that the Polish economy is a star of the crisis, because we deal very well with reduction of labour costs, but we have worse results during prosperity, when we stay behind other region's countries.
Frank Umbach PhD, Senior Associate for international energy security from the Centre of European Security Studies, referring to the construction of the Northern Pipeline, ascertained that it has always been a controversial project and the fault lies with Germany, which did not inform directly the states omitted by this project, including Poland. In the assessment of Frank Umbach, the EU's project of Nabucco pipeline (bypassing Russia) has never been so strongly supported by the German government as Nord Stream. - Currently Nord Stream is being built, but the baseline conditions have changed, we have excess of gas due to unconventional sources and decreased demand due to economic crisis.
Adam Jasser, reminded that Poland is still against construction of Nord Stream, because it sees in this project not merely the economic side, but also the political background. Jesser, in the context of energy security of Europe pointed out that creation of the European gas market by construction of new connections and opening of contracts can counteract shocks caused by unstable suppliers. Assessing the news about shale gas deposits located in Poland, Jesser stressed that Poland should look at unconventional gas as a bonus and put the greatest emphasis on solidarity, greater market liberalization and diversification. Russia knows what happens with shale gas and knows that it is bound to be a difficult market and that is why it has already agreed to renegotiate contracts. He also put in doubt the sense of concluding long-term contracts for liquid gas in so changeable gas market.
Regional dimension: cross-border and interregional cooperation
Matthias Platzeck, Prime Minister of the Federal State of Brandenburg ,stated that borders on Oder and Nysa are currently completely artificial, like borders in Alsace and Lorraine, but it has not been an easy process, it has required many little breakthroughs. We can speak about real proximity since 2007, when Poland joined the Schengen group. Since that time a great infrastructure for cooperation has been prepared, which is best illustrated by the recent flood in Poland. Comparing it with disaster from 1997, one must say that currently data transmission, calculation models, regular contacts between mayors, crisis teams worked perfectly. - Assistance was sent where required; we can see that a lot has changed in this perspective - summarized Platzeck
Piotr Krzystek, President of Szczecin, in the beginning of his speech, expressed a judgement that since the opening of the borders his city has breathed with „two lungs". - Szczecin forms the only cross-border metropolitan area. President Krzystek emphasized that Szczecin takes a great advantage of its cross-border location, but also companies from the other side of Oder benefited as a result of a lack of borders: - During construction boom, Polish companies carried out many projects in Germany - according to Krzystek.
In turn Adam Struzik, Marshall of Mazowsze Province, emphasized that distance is increasingly a smaller barrier in cross-border cooperation, - Mazowsze is the area with the greatest number of German investments and companies. Therefore, today we can speak not only about cross-border cooperation, but also about real interregional relations. Marshall Struzik emphasized that the Polish party expects that the German partners will share their experience in very specific areas including, for example, sources of renewable energy.
Innovative dimension: combination of science with economy
In the discussion devoted to innovations – „Connection between economy and science” Prof. Maria Elzbieta Orlowska, Secretary of State from Polish Ministry of Education, stated that the topic of innovations is so complex and extensive that it goes beyond the capacity of the ministry; therefore necessary are complementary actions, which have already been a standard in western states.
During her speech Professor Orlowska said about a package of six acts of law, which are due to come into force still in 2010. In her view, this package will alter entirely the approach to science in Poland. – First of all financing of science will change fundamentally, there will be no so called easy money, all funds will be distributed in competition – announced the Secretary of State from the Ministry of Education. According to Professor Orlowska, an important decision will be opening of funds for innovations for small and medium size enterprises.
Reforms will also include higher education, as it was announced by Professor Orlowska, the academic career path will be shorter and changes will be introduced also to the methods of education for university graduates.
All participants in the panel conference emphasized very intensive cooperation between Polish and German universities and research centres. Prof. Rita Suessmuth, Chair of the Management Board of Polish-German
All participants in the panel conference emphasized very intensive cooperation between Polish and German universities and research centres. Prof. Rita Suessmuth, Chair of the Management Board of Polish-German Foundation for Science, former Speaker of Bundestag, stressed a great interest of Polish and German students in mutual exchanges. In the same time, she emphasized that we still need to work on elimination of barriers and reduction of bureaucracy.
Prof. Suessmuth, referring to Polish plans to reform higher education warned against mistakes resulting from the Bologna process. – I would not like to hear that we know a lot about technology and not much about philosophy or psychology – said the former Speaker of Bundestag. Prof. Wlodzimierz Bolecki, Vice-president of the Management Board of Foundation for Polish Education, stated in turn that science and innovations are exactly the same because it is difficult to imagine science, whose target are not innovations. Prof. Torsten Posselt, Director of Fraunhofer Zentrum für Mittel- und Osteuropa remarked that it is necessary to pay more attention to humanistic and social faculties, especially in the face of challenges, which are confronted by Europe – demographic crisis, problems of social nature, depopulation of certain cities.
Prof. Bolecki presented three specific methods of strengthening Polish-German cooperation in the field of innovation. In his view these are: Polish German capital funds, innovation fairs and intensification of training.
Panellists and participants in the discussion undertook the initiative of organizing a separate conference devoted exclusively to innovations and science.
Political dimension: The European Union towards Eastern neighbours
The first discussion panel of the second day of the Polish-German Forum, entitled „the European Union towards eastern neighbours", was dominated by a new EU programme towards Russia - Partnership for modernization. Participants in the debate expressed a positive judgement about the guidelines of the programme, but they expect a clear answer from Russia.
Elmar Brok, Member of the European Parliament, Coordinator for foreign policy of EPP, European Parliament, referring to the new EU programme towards Russia, stated that this country has a strategic importance for Europe and we must let it feel that cooperation would be beneficial for it. Brok emphasized that Russia in turn is strategically doomed to Europe. Russia should be considered in the energy security strategy, it should be engaged in certain obligations as for example accession to WTO - we should act together, considering the amounts of gas reaching Europe, we should organize a customer market - said Brok.
Gunter Pleuger, Vice-chancellor of European University Viadrina, former Secretary of State in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Federal Republic of Germany, stated clearly that modernization of Russia without the European Union is not possible. He remarked that economic contacts will develop positively and Eastern Partnership and Partnership for Modernization, in his view, are two sides of the same strategy. - Russia must be included in the structures of the European security and why should it not become a NATO member, why should it not be a friend bearing in mind that it is no longer an enemy- asked Pleuger - Membership in NATO would be favourable for Russia, it would be linked with advancement of democracy and also possibility to talk with the USA on the same level - he argued.
Robert von Rimscha, Deputy Director of the Planning Staff in the German Ministry of Foreign Affairs, stressed that the EU must cautiously observe transformation taking place in the eastern part of the continent. - Russia has no other alternative to orientation towards the West, but it is an open question in what shape it will reach this destination. According to Robert von Rimscha, Russian authorities devote much attention and effort to make Russia a predictable economic partner. However, as he emphasized, „Partnership for modernization" cannot refer only to the economy and technology. - The point is that a comprehensive overview of the situation in contemporary Russia is needed - said von Rimscha.
Professor Adam Daniel Rotfeld, Co-chairman of the Polish-Russian Group for Difficult Issues, in his evaluation of the perspectives of modernization of Russia pointed to legal nihilism and corruption as the biggest obstacles on its way. - It is not a revelation to say that 10 years ago Putin talked about dictatorship of law, but prolonged arrest of Khodorkovsky had nothing to do with taxes, because destruction of Yukos had nothing to do with economic law - stated Rotfeld. Pointing to the reasons of lack of respect towards the law, Rodfeld emphasized that a priority for Moscow's political elite is to avoid repetition of the history of the USSR. - This new Medvedev's perestroika gives rise to concerns that it can be a beginning of the end of New Russia. We can see that Russian politicians think how to avoid disintegration of the state, and in the same time modernize the country to bring it closer to Europe. Russia must tackle this issue on its own, but we should support it, not being blind to the reactions to our propositions.
Boris Nadiezdin, PhD, Member of the Federal Political Council Prawoe Dielo, compared Russia to a great plane, which starts to gain speed slowly after the standstill of the Putin's time. Undoubtedly changes have taken place in Russia in the political sense - e.g. easier registration of parties and in the economy. Assessing the possibility of cooperation between the European Union and Russia, Nadiezdin distinguished three areas: cultural aspects, and thus simplified exit procedures for Russian citizens travelling to the EU, which boils down to departure from „Schengen visas" - It is a real project, the more Russians see the European Union with their own eyes, the easier it will be to form political relations - said Nadiezdin. The second area distinguished by Nadiezdin is the military sector, which in his view is a strategic issue for Russia because contemporary Russia is not capable of being a serious opponent of the biggest superpowers and blocks. - Russia will finally join one of the military blocks - he stated. The third area of possible cooperation is investment. Nadiezdin emphasized that Russia under the rule of President Medvedev has become increasingly a better target for investment. - The best help for modernization of Russia is maximum openness, meetings and cooperation not only in political but also economic sense - he declared.
Professor Adam Daniel Rotfeld, Co-chairman of the Polish-Russian Group for Difficult Issues returned to Polish-German relations and stated the Committee led by him served the role of a catalyst - we explain the affairs, in which we can achieve compromise, but politicians, commentators like to deal with issues that catch media attention. Meanwhile the Polish-Russian relations require peaceful, consistent work. Rotfeld remarked that in the field of interest of the Committee were affairs, which interfered with political contacts on the international level. The best known among them were the Katyn Massacre, and so called fourth partition of Poland (signature of the Ribbentrop- Molotov Pact).
Prof. Rotfeld announced release of a joint Polish-Russian publication in September. It will describe the history of Polish-Russian relations since 1917. It will include interpretation of the same historical fact by Polish and Russian historians. Rotfeld reminded that in the nearest perspective, new institutions - „Consensus and Dialogue Centres" should appear in the Polish-Russian relations.
